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superdiscount says on 8/Mar/10
Guys. About short or not short,it's an interesting discussion.Because there is a difference between data and daily life. In daily life, we usually feel different average of human height.
Fox example: there is a typical high school in Europe(400-600 boys). Main height of boys are about 178-185cm, and notice that is one of 10 boys must have a height of 185-190CM. You know, when a man who is 185cm walk in the school, he will feel a bit of low(not real short). you konw why? because tall boy usually more attractive than short boy. The man will think: WOW,I can see a lot of boys are above 185cm, I'm a little short. Actually, he is also tall, but he may feel himself a bit of low.
Trust me! There are an array of high school in European cities like this one, even taller and taller. such as in The Netherlands, northern Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland,Ireland, Belgium, Estonia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Montenegro, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, Slovenia, and so forth.
Sorry my poor english, but it's real.
Kurt says on 21/Feb/10
You can really get an idea of how tall Krist is when he's standing next to Robin Williams in the movie "Worlds Greatest Dad". I also met him at a club in Portland once and he's all of 6'7 easily. TN 185cm says on 5/Nov/09
this guy is a beast Ash says on 24/Oct/09
I actually used to think Krist was even taller than that, because I knew Dave was 6ft and he looked so much bigger in the photos. Herve says on 21/Aug/09
yoyo, if you walk out in Split or other places in Dalmatia (Croatia), you'll meet many men 6'7, 6'8 or 6'9 tall, who will not be this " super duper huge "... Mathew says on 19/Aug/09
As far as tall musicians go, Tim Fluckey, the guitarist of Adema is 6'10". Adema is actually a tall band all around, bassist Dave DeRoo looks as if he is in the 6'4" range - at the very 190 cm. Lead singer Mark Chavez doesn't look as tall as his half-brother Jonathan Davis (6'2") though - he looks more 5'10" - 5'11". yoyo says on 9/Aug/09
(Herve says on 13/Jul/09
Recently, I found a young Croatian singer quite tall : 206 cm !) Hey Herve, 206cm was not quite tall.. it was super duper huge!!..for a singer. i guess you don't walk out and see many 6ft8 6ft9 guys at all.. 206cm was then a Giant for a singer. Herve says on 13/Jul/09
Recently, I found a young Croatian singer quite tall : 206 cm ! His name is Zoran MISIC and you can see some photos of him on Google... Herve says on 10/Jul/09
What is about Cukrov, I don't know exactly, but let me tell you that there is a young Croatian singer who is 206 cm tall : Zoran MISIC. You can see some photos of him on Google... BOB says on 13/Jun/09
Come on Herve, this guy (Igor Cukrov) is from Split.He is definitely taller than 175. Maybe 182 is right for him. Herve says on 12/Jun/09
Hey gfab and other friends, if you want my e-mail, just write Arcuato to : balkan2012 (e-mail hotmail). Bye ! Herve says on 27/May/09
No, Drag, I don't know but, according to some photos, I'd say about 175 cm. Drag says on 26/May/09
Herve do u know actually how tall he is? i would really appreciate this! Herve says on 26/May/09
Sure he's not as tall as other Croatian singer from Split, Petar GRASO (1,96 m), or Serbian singer Igor STAROVIC (2,01 m)... Drag says on 25/May/09
hello guys! does anyone has an idea about how tall is Igor Cukrov, whi represented Croatia at Eurovision 2009? He is from Split, but he does not look very tall.... Drag says on 25/May/09
hello guys! does anyone has an idea about how tall is Igor Cukrov, whi represented Croatia at Eurovision 2009? He is from Split, but he does not look very tall.... Arcuato says on 24/May/09
I put my adress to have contact among all the people that are interested in stay in split/dalmatia (job/house helping blablabla). Bye ;) Arcuato says on 23/May/09
Herve/fgab please write me at balkan2012 (e-mail hotmail) Vepar says on 19/May/09
Zagreb should be between highest and shortest in Croatia,it's a 'melting pot' Herve says on 14/May/09
Hey gfab and all friends ! I don't have any sure stats about human height in Bosnia (without Herzegovina), but according to what I could read in the past and notice nowadays, I'd say it should be between 180 and 182 for young men. I asked once muslim Alen BESLAGIC (210 cm, 1972) if people were taller in his native Tuzla or in his hometown Zagreb. He answered me with no hesitation : Tuzla ! If we consider the average to be 180-182 cm in Zagreb, sure it must be higher in Tuzla. But I tell you again, I can't affirm anyhing about that. Bye ! gfab says on 13/May/09
Hi friends! I had an unexpected opportunity to join some friends going to Plitvicka Jezera (sorry if I mispelled) so I was in Croatia again (three days). That area does not seem particularly impressive as to height (whilst it is as to lakes!!). People seem as tall as in Zagreb, I'd say that the average is not over 182-183cm (which is anyway remarkable if we reason on european scale). I guess that in the north of Bosnia, which is quite close to where I was, people should be as tall as I found in Pivlicka J, so confirming Herve's data on Herzegovinans being taller than Bosnians. But this is just a supposition, I never was in Bosnia. Arcuato, thanks for your report, so now you too are in "Herve team" (thinking that Croats are the tallest) :-) Bye Herve says on 11/May/09
Thanks, Vepar, for your interesting testimony. It's amazing to learn that height difference between Dinarics and Pannonians is decreasing more and more due to what you call exactly " Dinaricization " of Slavonia. Best regards to all my Croatian friends ! Vepar says on 9/May/09
Hi,I am from Slavonia,town called Pozega.I was very interested in height when i was 17 and 1/2.And i knew exactly the height of each male in my class.Here is the list:
199,197,194,190,3 times 188,186,185,2 times 184,183,179,176,174.
My calculator says average is 186.3 .
Of course :),the 5 tallest ones originate from Herzegovina and Dalmatia,to be precise-4 of them from Herzegovina,1 from Dalmatia(town of Sinj).They were at that time mostly exactly 18 years old,some of them 17 and a half.
I also originate from Dalmatia,and I have 25% of original Slavonian ancestry,and i am between 184 and 185-i took 184,not to loose anything.
So yes,the key factor for growing of Slavonia was the 'Dinaricization'.But you must keep in mind that really many Slavonians originate from there-i would say 35-55%,depending on area.If we add Bosnians,who are also close to Dinarics-and many of them have far origins from Dinarics,it is even more.
Concerning other classes,in my generation,i think other classes are not SO tall,but close,let's say 183-184 on average.
That was 2,5 years ago.Concerning newer generations,i know that in my friend's class,who is now 18,out of some 15 boys,there are 2 of them taller than 2m.
And that my friend,which is ironical,is extraordinary short(166) for Croatian standards,although he is of Herzegovinian ancestry . Herve says on 9/May/09
OK Arcuato, I am glad you realized by yourself what gfab and I told you many times on this forum. Newt time, try to go to Trebinje (Herzegovina) and you'll see people still taller than in Split... Bye ! Doug says on 5/May/09
LOL Split and Amsterdam, land of giants. Arcuato says on 5/May/09
Hey friends, I come back for my holidays in dalmacia (Split) as I announced before. First to say that still in love with the balkans :). For the conclusions about that we're talking Amsterdam vs Split I have to say that the yourgers in Split that I saw in the discotheque are AT MINIMUN as tall as in Amsterdam, in my opnion taller. If you compare the ranges of ages for me the people in split are taller than the people in Amsterdam. Another thing that I have to say is that in my opinion there are more young people in the streets of Amsterdam than in the streets of Split (included the tourist that visit Amsterdam that are in general youngers than the people who visit Split), and it's may be the cause that the perception would be hard to determine. Respect at the youngers at disco: Split youngers are taller. Respect the city and the people: LOVELY , I will come back to stay long time as I can and I will try to learn croatian. Byez ;) gfab says on 22/Apr/09
Hi friends. Avg_or_short, it is funny to be in Dalmatia, don't think about dwarfness or giantness, not in such terms. Simply you will look around and you will note that your head must be inclined more than usual in order the cross the eyes of other people :-) Or you will think (such as me, the first minutes I was there) that men and women use shoes with very high heels! After some days one does not note anymore the incredible height of dalmatians, (of course human beings become accustomed to new experiences quickly). But the first hours there are astonishing :-) In this list we are waiting for the impressions of Arcuato, after his trip in Dalmatia, so, avg_or_short, drop us some lines after your visit in Croatia! Herve, I understand totally your position. I am interested in your story since it induces optimism. You give evidence that if one is strongly and honestly interested in succeeding in some goal, then he/she can do excellent things, even though the context is not at all favourable to him/her. In some sense your story is an example and a couple of times I thought of you when I met some difficulties in my everyday life. Beside that, of course, I have fun in discussing these topics related to human height. Bye! Herve says on 22/Apr/09
avg_or_short, to answer your question, you will not be a dwarf in the Dinaric Alps, not more than a man 2 m tall is a giant there. At 160, you would be thus, not at 172.
But if you go to Split, for instance, just know that you’ll find 1 young guy your size about 50, sometimes 2, rarely 3. In fact, it is exactly the same proportions as for a Dalmatian 2 m tall : as the average is 185 cm, when you generally consider 50 individuals, the tallest stands 15 cm more than the average (2 m) and the smallest 15 cm less (1,70 m). These are the stats I habe been able to establish.
So, of course, you’ll be not a dwarf, but sometimes, you’ll have the impression you are such. As I already said it, a Croatian friend of mine living in Paris told me once he feels himself a draw when he comes back in Dalmatia. Now, he is exactly 2 m tall... Even if he was exaggerating, the fact is that he often met men much taller than he.
Another example ? Some years ago, I was in touch with a French basketball player who is 2,09 m tall. In 2000, he spent his hollydays in Makarska (south of Split) and was quite frustrated that nobody seemed to notice his height when walking on the streets. At the contrary, he was very surprised by the number of men 2 m tall he saw there. And one night he went to a night club, he had an incredible experience : 3 men taller than he were standing at the entrance !
Well, you’ll see that by yourself and don’t forget to leave us your own impressions when you are back... avg_or_short says on 21/Apr/09
Actually I know it will not be a dwarf height for sure :) I was just amazed seeing the info Herve provided and I was curious about the general perception to a 170 cm young man in those regions. I understand that there are still many young men at around this height there. And it is considered normal. I hope to see it with my eyes this summer. Thanks.. Herve says on 21/Apr/09
I don't have an own site, but I intend to publish my stats in a few years. Well, avg_or_short will not be a dwarf in Dalmatia, but a small guy. And in the little down of Drnis, young females are a little taller than he is on average... avg__or_short says on 21/Apr/09
varus, glad to hear that there are many people at my height there :) thanks. anonnymous says on 20/Apr/09
avg_or_short,
The average height is not 187cm, it's rather 180-182cm depending which city or part of Dinarics you want to vistit. It is average of 185-186cm among specific age group, younger generation, and only in some cities which Herve provided. There are men even those who are younger, and they are as tall as you are or shorter few centimeters and they are not considered dwarfs. You are still taller than average girl from any age group. It's only that there you will see more taller than average guys and girls then anywhere in Europe, probaly in the world.
Question for Herve. Do you have your own site, and if not, are you planning to make one? I just think it would be great to have all of the information you've got regarding Dinaric region and human height on one site. Just my thought. varus says on 20/Apr/09
I'm from Croatia, avg_or_short,at 172 you won't be considered average,but you also won't be considered a dwarf.I have several friends at that height and nobody calls them dwarfs :) avg_or_short says on 20/Apr/09
Herve, your data are very interesting. I am 172 cm tall young male, and I am planning a vacation to those areas (Dinaric Alps). If the average height is like 187 cm, and the shortest an a group of young people is almost always over than 174 cm, I am curious how they think about a guy at my height. Do they think like it is a dwarf height or something :) Did you get any impression on this during your search? Thanks for all these information. Herve says on 18/Apr/09
Gfab, leave me some more time because I have much work these days. More over, I don't like to talk about me, mainly when people are particularly " sick " of seeing too often my comments... gfab says on 15/Apr/09
Hi Dani. For other vips listed on this site, there are just a few comments on their height. In this list on Krist's height the discussion expanded. We are talking in general of human height, and you can find here a lot of reliable infos. That's good. Dani, if you will introduce some topic related with height, sure you will get some interesting comment. Now: Herve! I'm waiting for the second part of the story. If you are willing, please go on. Bye! Herve says on 11/Apr/09
When you said once Krist Novoselic's height is 6'7, what do you want to say more ? dani says on 9/Apr/09
Im sick of this. I come to his post and find only HERVE AND GRAB comments. Is there anyone else who wants to post here and talks about Krist Novoselic's height? Herve says on 8/Apr/09
Hey gfab ! First I learnt Croatian (and Serbian) thanks to the « Assimil » handbook. As I had studied Russian before (for 7 years), it was not this hard for me to start alone a new slavic language. If I don’t yet speak it fluently, don’t worry : I speak it enough to ask the informations I need in my communications (95 % of them are in Serbo-croatian, 4,9 % in English, 0,1 % in French) and (of course) to understand the answers (besides I’ve just decided to make a break in my researches in order to improve in Serbo-croatian). Both the Croatian journalists who contacted me about my work spoke either French or English, so I did not have to make any translation from French to Croatian.
About Zorana (the 210 cm tall girl), I could not prevent laughing when I noticed her surprise to be “ identified ” on this forum and thought in myself : “ Hey ! If gfab or someone else reads that, sure he’s gonna smile and say : “ This Herve, how does he know this girl ” ? Which happened...
I also remember the reaction of a Serbian journalist (working on the Serbian Basketball Federation’s web site) when I communicated him (in 2002) the clubs’ rosters (with names and heights of the players) of the second (!) Serbian division ! No one in Serbia (even in the Federation itself) owned these rosters and that man was quite amazed that a stranger gave them to him. What did I do ? What they should have done themselves : contact each club manager or coach and ask them basic data about their players...
Let’s say that I seriously started collecting informations 10 years ago. But I'll talk you about that next time. Bye ! gfab says on 8/Apr/09
Hi. "You're wrong", your reported statistics sounds strange with respect to the infos by Herve: Herzegovinans should be taller than Bosnians, according to him. This should hold also for 40-aged people. Moreover, it is rather strange that there is more than 4cms difference between Bosnians and Montenegrins. So, permit me to say this, I do not think that the statistics you reported is reliable, probably they analyze a very restricted amount of men. As a rule, I assume that Herve's statistics are the best ones regarding the Dalmatian area, and does not need any further confirmation by other statistics. Maybe I'm wrong, but now I think so. Bye friends, have a nice Easter period. You're wrong says on 7/Apr/09
You're right Herve.According to other sources Montenegro isn't the tallest country of former Yugoslavia.People from Bosnia-Herzegovina are taller.(I read in a pdf: the avg of people in Bosnia 180.7, in Herzegovina 179.5 and Montenegro only 176.3-samples living in Vojvodina,Serbia-Avg age: 40 years) gfab says on 4/Apr/09
Herve...you anticipated another question of mine. "Learning Croatian". I read in previous messages that you published some papers in Croatian, and wondered if you needed someone for the translation, and wondered if you contacted persons using English for your communications. Now I read you learnt Croatian (a question: you learnt it by yourself, or with some croatian teacher?). I think that I am not alone in understanding the weight of your work (sure Arcuato is another one). Anyone who reads carefully the messages in this list realizes that. When you called by name and surname that girl (Zorana) that states she is 210cm, and she replied "how is it possible that this guys knows me???" I smiled and told myself: either Herve is a diviner or he has in his hands the more impressive "height map" of the Balkans area :-) How many years did it take to collect your data? You said that your interest began early, when you was a teen-ager, but I think you started gathering statistics later on. Bye! Herve says on 31/Mar/09
Hey gfab ! Sure you are the only person on this site who has realized what kind of (hard) job I made by collecting all the informations I have today (hours and hours of researches, queries, calls, learning Croatian, etc.), more over when it remained a hobby...
I think (with no pride) that nobody in the world never got as many stats as me regarding the Dinaric area. Even in Croatia and Serbia, people are quite surprised by the quantity of data a stranger has gathered out of their own countries. One of them wrote me once : “ I think you deserve a nobel prize for life achievement “. And they all only took knowledge around 10% of my materials...
Do you know for instance that I have been able to find more than 300 men from ex-Yugoslavia (from whose 150 Serbs and 100 Croats) who are at least 2,10 m tall (ten of them are 2,20 m or more) ? I don’t claim I found them all, which is quite impossible, but maybe 70%. It’s hard for someone to imagine all the contacts I had to organize before calling each giant (or his family) PERSONALLY ! And I don’t mention all the ones who were in fact 2,09 m, 2,08 m and less...
One more thing : when someone writes that Montenegrins are the tallest in Europe (it’s also what I believed when I started my researches), I have stats which prove they are not as tall (in average) as Herzegovinians and central Dalmatians. Except for the area of Niksic where people are very high (about 186 cm for young men), in the other montenegrin places, the average is situated between 182 (on the coast : Bar, Budva...) and 185 (Podgorica) or 184 (Bijelo Polje). Therefore, I don’t think the “ national “ Montenegrin average to be more than 184... Bye ! anonnymous says on 29/Mar/09
You're wrong, believe me that Bosnia-Herzegovina is mixed, and you will find tall and short, or average people in both parts. The tallest Bosnian woman, former basketball star Razija Mujanovic who is 203cm is from northeast Bosnia. There are a lot of tall people in Bosnia just like in Herzegovina, but it is true that there are more tall people on average in Herzegovina. The new Bosnian football goalkeeper Supic who is 197cm tall comes from Gacko, Herzegovina. Some other tall football players like superstar Ibrahimovic who is 193cm was born in northeast Bosnia, Dzeko is 192cm and he was born in Sarajevo, Bosnia. The whole Bosnian football national team average over 185cm, but Ibrahimovic plays for Sweden.
Also, I don't think the whole Montenegro is what is so called Dinaric region, probably only adriatic coast, and northern parts. You're wrong says on 29/Mar/09
Here testemonies from people of Dinaric Alps And Crotia:
"Well, since I come from Dinaric Alps, from Herzegovina, I can say something about that... I'm not that tall, I'm only 182 cm, but I think it's enough to say that in my class in high school, out of 13 men, only one was smaller than me, and the other one was the same size... Everyone else were higher than us, and 5 of my classmates were above 195 cm... Others were around 188-190 cm... Well, I know why I'm not that tall, my mother is from Bosnia, and the average Bosnian is much smaller than average Herzegovinian (or how ever you say that )... The one that was smaller than me (172 cm) was also from the border of Dinaric Alps, and this one who is my size is born in Sarajevo, which is Bosnia... I know there were scientists coming to our schools, they were examining why are we so taller then the rest (not me ), but I don't know what they concluded...
As far as I know, there are three regions with very tall men: Montenegro, Herzegovina and Dalmatia... Montenegro is a country now, so their average is visible from the stats, while Herzegovina and Dalmatia are regions in their countries..."
"i am 182cm and i live in region who has mixed population from dinaric alps and panonska nizina (don't know is there any english name for that region), border of dinaric alps. and i'm about avrege hight here. when i was in north croatia i was motsley taller than everybody else, but when i was i south (dalmatia) croatia i felt prety small . i also viseted hercegovina where mostley bosnian croat lives almoust everybody where taller then me."
"As such, Montenegro is the only country to lie entirely within the Dinaric Alps as all other lands extend to areas outside the region."
According to this information:Montenegro is the tallest country of the World
Source:
Click Here
Avg height in Montenegro-Dinaric Alps is 186cm(younger)(scientific research):
Click Here gfab says on 28/Mar/09
Ok Arcuato! We wait for your comments. I bet you'll change your mind as happened to me :-) Herve: you are a hammer! 120 or more contacts are a HUGE amount, sure they guarantee accurate statistics. By the way with your method one could investigate any area: you could create a "height investigation team" based in France that studies the more interesting areas in Europe: some basket association should be interested in that kind of studies. But on the other hand I think there is a sort of romantic flavour in what you did alone, probably a part of the fun for you is exactly to do everything by yourself together with your dalmatian collaborators. Bye, friends! Arcuato says on 27/Mar/09
^_^ . As I said before I´ll go to Split on holidays, I have the date (in one month). I have been in balkans (and I fall in love) but now I'll travel to Split (the last time I was practically in the station making a scale). I'll tell you my experience when I come back. Bye Herve says on 26/Mar/09
Hey Gfab ! To get all the results I have today, I contacted personnally (by phone) more than 120 teachers of sport in Dalmatia. It was a very hard way, but the only one possible, as you'll never have one stat by internet. More over, I wanted to be sure of the heights the teachers gave me and every time I asked them if their pupils were measured without shoes (yes, in 95% of the cases). My inquiry lasted for several years and I can affirm that all the stats I received since the beginning are concording. Maybe once a teacher gave me anything, but in most of the times, the measures were very precise (sometimes at millimiter...). Therefore, my sources were truthful and as I went myself in Dalmatia to visit many friends, no doubt about that. But I'll not argue further here if some people want to believe only what they see. They just have to take a ticket plane for Split and then they'll "see" by themselves... Bye ! Anonymous says on 24/Mar/09
gFab, Im not disputing your stats which is many cases are inflated. Im talking about what i saw based on my personal experience. I also think most people lie aboout their height and that's a fact of life. It happens everywhere. gfab says on 22/Mar/09
Hi Herve. Now I understand your method: you exploit your dalmatians friends, that pass you all the informations you need. Nowadays, via internet, you can keep in touch with schools and sports associations. I imagine you would like to verify personally data; anyway if your sources are trustful you can produce very accurate statistics. How many persons help you?
A final remark on the message from Dani. Dani, statistics is not a joke. There is very little arguing on the fact that Dalmatians and Dutch are the tallest. Anyway, if your experience leads you to different conclusions, ok, I will not argue further. Dani says on 21/Mar/09
Listen people stop arguin' about whether Holland or Serbia is the tallest. I went to the Netherlands and wasn't that impressed. I saw many guys between 5"10-6"1. I saw more 6"3+ in Sweeden and Norway. Im 5"11(181cm) and felt pretty average in the Netherlands. People lie pretty bad about their heights. People lie in Europe, America, everywhere. i CAN'T believe how tall Novoselic is. When i saw his videos of Nirvana, i guessed he was like 6"2. Herve says on 17/Mar/09
Gfab, you don't bore me with your questions, don't matter. In fact, I have been only twice in Dalmatia (the last time in 2003). I have a lot of friends there, but not the opportunity to travel too often. Anyway, with my map of Dalmatia under the eyes and plenty of photos, I " travel " in this area more than once a year, be sure... You'll not be surprised to read that my dream is to live there one day, among my dear Croats. Bye ! gfab says on 16/Mar/09
Herve, I am surprised. Your studies are precious, being done with such difficulties. The funny thing is that probably you are much more informed than those who are paid for studying height matters in the Balkans. How many times a year do you go to Dalmatia? And how much time your visits take? (I hope not to bore you with such questions...) Bye. someGRANDguy says on 14/Mar/09
In the book Come As You Are The Story of Nirvana by Michael Azerrad, it says that Chris (Krist) is six foot seven on page 7. Herve says on 6/Mar/09
Yes, I got (only twice) some fund from the National Centre of Scientific Research (Paris), but usually I did all by myself, which is, believe me, very, very hard. My knowledge of Dinaric Alps also concerns sport, mainly basketball. Besides, I am preparing a history of Yugoslavian Basketball from 1945 to 1991. But this is just one of the many projects I have and it still remains, yes, a hobby... Bye ! gfab says on 5/Mar/09
Herve, your remark is sound, Arcuato too should be impressed by a uniform 185cm average height. So we have to wait that our friend go again to Dalmatia and we will see if he will change his opinion. An offtopic question for you: have you got some fund for your research, or do you work for some project? Your knowledge of Dalmatian area in reference to height matters is impressive, it seems much more than a plain hobby! Bye. Herve says on 2/Mar/09
Hey gfab ! As you wrote yourself, I am not sure your last remarks would be that decisive... When a male average is 185 cm as in Split, people seem you tall, even if you are smaller (183) or taller (187) than most of them. All the men 2 m tall I talked with in the Split area never told me that people were "not so tall here". At the contrary, they all say they feel themselves "normal", when it's not "small"... Another phenomenon interesting in Drnis and surroundings, is the incredible average of some family names. For instance, you can be sure, when you meet someone whose name is VLAIC that he's at least 190 cm tall. This surname is tipycal from the village of Miljevci (south west of Drnis). I am trying to know how tall are all the VLAIC. For the moment, the average is above 1,90 m tall... Bye ! gfab says on 26/Feb/09
Hi friends, I was out of reach for a while. Arcuato, in Belgrade I had a perception less impressive than in Split, in the sense that in Belgrade you find a good amount of short people (say below 175cm) while it is REALLY difficult to find them in Split (that is what I observed, of course). On the comparison Amsterdam/Split, it is interesting that you perceive things differently from me. Note that you're taller than me (187cm's vs 183) so it is possible that the mass of people in that range (183-187) leads us to different conclusions: I classify them as tall, you classify them as short. I'm reasoning on the following example: if in a town all people are exactly 185cm tall, I would think:" My God, here I'm really short", but you would think:"not so tall people, here". So this 4cm's of point of view which separate us could be decisve for our remarks. I have to add that in Split I recognized a lot of VERY tall people, so I am not so sure that what I stated above makes much sense. Herve, this is a question for you :-) Bye! Herve says on 24/Feb/09
Last " anonymous " was Herve, you must have understood... Anonymous says on 23/Feb/09
No, Arcuato, never heard about Chroro Skafion, but it's not surprising that we meet tall people in the whole Balkans, in some specific " islands ". For example, some Albanians (maybe from Croatian descent) are reputated tall. What about Split, as live there 200 000 inhabitants, you can find all that you need in a big city. Besides, if you really want to apreciate the autochtons' height, it's better to go there during the non-touristic season (especially summer). Bye ! Arcuato says on 21/Feb/09
Herve, did you heard about the tiny village (2500 inhabitants) of Choro Sfakion (is in the south west region of Creta (Greece))? I read that they are direct descendents from Dorians and they are as Montenegrins (also very tall), Click Here and another question ... how is the normal live in Split (not in the high season)? Is a big city with its commercials, theaters, discotheques, officces ... ? Herve says on 21/Feb/09
Something else about tall people from Belgrade. That’s not strictly a scientific proof, but it is quite amazing. If you enter the site of Basketball club PARTIZAN (Belgrade), you’ll see they have in the same team two of the tallest players in Europe : Slavko VRANES (229 cm, 1983) and young (still growing up) Nemanja BESOVIC (219 cm, 1992) ! Of couse, both these guys are not originally from Belgrade, but maybe 90 % of the inhabitants of Belgrade are Serbs coming from other parts of Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Montenegro and FYROM (Makedonia), usually dinaric areas. That’s why in Belgrade, town which is not situated yet in the Dinaric Alps, the height average is very high, owing to the important number of people from dinaric origin. Herve says on 19/Feb/09
Arcuato, regarding Belgrade, I can't be as affirmative as in Split, for instance. But I don't think the heights I put off on this meetings' site were this point surestimated (182 cm or less, instead of 184). All the testimonies of strangers visiting Belgrade note the impressive height of autochtons. Would it be the case if the young male population there was " only " between 180 and 182 tall ? Let me give you once more the one of the American Chad Ford in 2002 : « On the way home, I begin noticing the young people. They are huge. The men, the women and the children. I’m 6-foot-2, and many of the young women I saw that night were looking me square in the eye. Most of the young men were much taller. You wonder why Eastern European countries keep producing these 7-foot phenoms when all we can produce is Eddy Curry and Chris Marcus ? The proof is in the genetics » (Coming out of the Darko). Bye ! Arcuato says on 19/Feb/09
For me that you write (Herve) have absolutely sense, and I agree with you that in Amsterdam the average height is 183. In the only point that I dont agree with you is that in Belgrade the average height is more than in Amsterdam (honestly I thought that you put like 182 more or less), also if you take heighst from meetings webs from netherland they grow it, its about that that I wanna heard another opinion, but dont take it at bad ;) Arcuato says on 19/Feb/09
Hey Herve, in my opinion the average height in Amsterdam is 181-182 cm, all the population (if there is only the university students it would be 184) and in Belgrade its about 179-181 cm (opinion, not scientifically) for among all the people, have no idea about university students Herve says on 18/Feb/09
Arcuato, if you are " absolutely sure that the people in Amsterdam are taller than in Belgrade ", tell me please which average did you find in Amsterdam ? From my own, I found 183 cm. Do you see some kind of non-sense when I write that in Split, with 185 cm, or in Belgrade (184 or 185), the average is above the one of Amsterdam ? But if you want now to talk about Groningen, I also wait your precious data in order to recognize the superiority of Dutch people. Let me tell you that you have to find more than 186 cm, the average in Drnis, Trebinje or Niksic. Good luck ! Anyway, you must also know that Dutch people don't grow up any more, according to last statistics, when it's not at all the case in the Dinaric Alps. Which means that if the Dinaric people are not currently the tallest men in Europe (as they were since the Middle Ages until the 1980's), sure they will soon take back home their title. What do you think about that ? Arcuato says on 17/Feb/09
GFAB, what do you think about that? Im absolutely sure that the people in Amsterdam are taller than in Belgrade, you agreed with me before, and Herve and many croatian/serbians said that in Belgrade the people are as tall than in Split, and the people in Split are taller than the people in Amsterdam (and we're not talking about Groningen that sure that are taller than in Amsterdam)... Herve says on 16/Feb/09
Hello Arcuato ! First thanks for the article I'll take time to read attentively. Regarding the average height about (young) male population in Belgrade, I took off a few months ago about 200 heights of men 20 years old from Belgrade in a serbian site of meetings. I found an average of 184 cm. But it can be a little more, maybe like in Split (185 cm). One of my Croatian friend who is from Split told me as a matter of fact that people seem as tall in Belgrade as in Split. But if you really want to meet next time you travel by there the tallest men, you have choice between these three towns : Drnis (Dalmatia), Trebinje (Herzegovina) and Niksic (Montenegro). Bye ! Arcuato says on 15/Feb/09
Herve, sorry for response later... The article is "Common variants in the JAZF1 gene associated with height identified by linkage and genome-wide association analysis" ... Click Here (that saz that the average height in Dalmatia are the highest. Another question Herve ... what is in your opinion the average height for male population in Belgrade, how many cms less than the population in Split? Herve says on 10/Feb/09
Gfab, you can still add on your list Croatian center forward Tomislav STANIC (202 cm, 1981), from Tomislavgrad (BIH), who played also for HNK HAJDUK SPLIT... Among the not-dinaric football players 202 cm and more, there is also a German one who is 203 cm. But I heard too about some guys from low leagues in Dalmatia who are at least 2 m tall, which is all except surprising when 1 man about 40 is this tall in Dalmatia... Adam says on 7/Feb/09
Aaron: while I don't know Krist's actual weight, I will tell you this: I am 6'6 and around 190 lbs. While I am thin, it is not to an abnormal degree, and I have a relatively similar build to Krist's.
Hope that helps! Herve says on 4/Feb/09
OK gfab, but we don't have many sites about Croatian football clubs... Anyway, the tallest soccer players I found are 2 ... Croatian goal-keepers, Vanja IVESA (2,05 m, 1977) and Nikola DRKUSIC (2,05 m, 1975), now Slovenian. Bye ! Aaron says on 3/Feb/09
Hmm... kind of a dumb question, but how much does Krist weigh? Specifically how much did he weigh in oh say... 93'? I saw somebody say 185 pounds, but that sounds so off... my sisters boyfriend is 5'7" and weighs about 190-200 and he doesn't look overweight at all, so I mean Krist being 6'7"-6'8" an all 185 pounds seems horribly thin. If I had to guess I'd say at the least 200 pounds, does anybody know? ARC says on 3/Feb/09
Arcuato is right, Groningen and Friesland have so much tall people Herve says on 3/Feb/09
OK, gfab, for the moment, maybe it is this German team, but we don't have many precise stats about Croatian clubs. Anyway, the tallest players I found are 2 Croatian goalkeepers : Vanja IVESA (205 cm, 1977) and Nikola DRKUSIC (205 cm, 1975, who is now Slovenian). Bye ! gfab says on 1/Feb/09
Arcuato, don't worry. You're right to be suspicious on everything you find on web. In this list I tend to trust some guys, Herve above all; there are other detailed data (probably correct) from another guy named Evlekis, with lot of infos on other parts of Europe. As to myself, I was close to your position, and laughed when reading the claims of Croats to be the tallest, since I was in Holland several time and though it was not possible to find people even taller than Dutch. But when I started visiting Dalmatia, I had to change my mind...Ah, by the way, I found the the tallest football team in Europe is not croatian nor dutch, but german: Werder Bremen, with a remarkable 1.86cm average height. Of course this does not mean anything, just that the coach prefers tall players. Bye. Herve says on 30/Jan/09
Arcuato, another question : where can we find the stats you gave us ? Also do you know when were they taken off, because if it was for example 20 years ago, the men 55 years old in this inquiry would be in fact 75 today ?... Thanks for the answer. Herve says on 30/Jan/09
OK Arcuato, don't matter for your suspicion, I'd say this was a normal attitude, mainly on a forum where anybody can write anything... I am glad you could find the latest stats and I notice that males from Split are the tallest while also the oldest on this average. Sure if we could get males 45 years old (instead of 55), the average would be maybe (I think) 1 cm more (177 instead of 176).
But, the most impressive is that young people from Split are still taller and taller, while other nations like Netherlands or Sweden seem to have stopped growing up. What will be the difference in 10 years ? We'll see. But even if you did not have found these datas, I would have still mine to proove the genetical superiority of Dinaric people in Europe.
By the way, did you notice that the tallest player in the actual World handball championship in Croatia is a Croat (Marko KOPLJAR, born in 1986), with 210 cm (Serbs are probably second in this ranking with 207 cm Nenad MALENCIC) ? Bye ! Herve says on 27/Jan/09
As a former basket-ball player (in low division), at age 14, I was admirative of the incredible number of players 2 m and more from Yugoslavia. Today, 30 years later, it did not change... Arcuato says on 24/Jan/09
Hey guys, now I have to trusth in you a little bit more ;) (don't take it bad ;) but I was suspecious that it was a joke between Herve and gfab because I was personally in Split). I found this interesting article, I resume if you cannot see... they compared 5 regions (among the tallest people): north italy, scottist, croatian (around split), swedish and dutch. And they put that the highest average was in region of dalmacia whit 176 cm (7.2 as standart desviation) AMONG MALES PEOPLE OF AVERAGE OF 54.9 YEARS, 173.5 (7.1) for dutch whit avg age 50.1, scottist 174.8 / (avg age 54.2), swedish 174.7 / (avg age 43.2), south tyrolean (north italy) 173.1 / (avg 45.6). I have a lot of curiosity and I really want to come back (AGAIN) to check it when I have time. Thanks for all ;) Herve says on 24/Jan/09
As a former basket-ball player (in a low division), I was fascinated at age 14 by the number of Yugoslavian players 2 m and more. That was the beginning of the interest I had for the Dinaric people and 30 years later, it's always the same... gfab says on 23/Jan/09
Thank you Herve! Of course your corrections are always welcome and please correct any supposition I do on the basis of my poor data :-) A curiosity: when did you get interested in height matters? Of course I have to answer first. When I was a boy, I played football, as quite standard here in Italy. And I could not find an answer to this question (afterwards I realized it was a silly one): better a short or a tall player? Since then I kept note of the height of my friends, and in the following years I extended the investigation to any sport. Then it became for me an habit to do some statistics with height. Bye. Herve says on 21/Jan/09
In Serbia, there is a guitarist 210 cm tall : his name is Bozidar Djelic, from Sremska Mitrovica... Herve says on 21/Jan/09
Hey gfab ! Just a precision about what you wrote recently. Of course, Trogir is a wonderful town. Of course, there are also tall men and women (both of them are 200 cm and 198 cm...). But, but... as I got stats in this town, I can tell you that usually young men are smaller than in the rest of Central Dalmatia (Split, Omis, Kastela, Makarska, etc.), about 1,5 - 2 cm (and young women too). Why ? It seems that Trogir's settlement, quite old, is mostly due to romano-illyric population. Then, the Dinarics come from the mountains are not as many as in Split, for example. So, if you saw there tall people, probably most of them were from the near Kastela or the surrounding mounts. Bye ! Mikey says on 20/Jan/09
Must be something about bassists that they're tall:) Johnny Hedlund, the guy from the Swedish death metal band Unleashed (don't know if they're still playing) is 2,05m and strappy. gfab says on 19/Jan/09
Arcuato, when visiting Dalmatia, don't forget Trogir (between Sibenik and Split). First of all it's a wonderful town. Second, when I visited Trogir I found the more impressive amount of tall people: I was there during the market day, and walking around I was really astonished by the average height. Probably it has been a coincidence, but sure Trogir is worthy another height check by you :-) Herve says on 16/Jan/09
Just for anecdots : the mayor of Belgrade, Aleksandar Vucic, is 202 cm tall, same as the one of Bijelo Polje (Montenegro), Tarzan (yes !) Milosevic, whose nephew Stevan (a friend of mine) is 211... And the tallest deputy in Croatian Parlament (Sabor) is a former basket-ball player, Herzegovinian Franjo Arapovic (2,15 m, 1965)... Herve says on 16/Jan/09
Hello gfab and other friends. I'll answer Arcuato : in the origins, the people from Zagreb are not dinaric ones, which means they are not extremely tall. But, due to the massive immigration there of Dalmatians and Herzegovinians (both od dinaric type) since the beginning of XXth century, many guys of modern Zagreb are tall. I don't think the average is the same as in Split, but not so far (maybe 182-183 cm ?). Arcuato, read again the testimony of my friend Ivan Zaradic that you'll find below. This perfect dinaric archetype (211 cm and 115 kg) will tell you that he meets many tall people every day in Zagreb. As many students in Zagreb are from Dalmatia, that's not surprising. But, again, " Splicani " are taller than " Zagrepcani "... Herve says on 16/Jan/09
Hello gfab and other friends. I'll answer Arcuato : in the origins, the people from Zagreb are not dinaric ones, which means they are not extremely tall. But, due to the massive immigration there of Dalmatians and Herzegovinians (both od dinaric type) since the beginning of XXth century, many guys of modern Zagreb are tall. I don't think the average is the same as in Split, but not so far (maybe 182-183 cm ?). Arcuato, read again the testimony of my friend Ivan Zaradic that you'll find below. This perfect dinaric archetype (211 cm and 115 kg) will tell you that he meets many tall people every day in Zagreb. As many students in Zagreb are from Dalmatia, that's not surprising. But, again, " Splicani " are taller than " Zagrepcani "... Arcuato says on 16/Jan/09
Ok guys, thank you for response my question. When I have holidays (I think in March or April) I will go again to the balkans (I love there) and I will go to Split and check that.Then I´ll post again.But another thing is that I asked a croatian friend in the train to Zagreb to Split (much taller than me (187), around 195 (the guy)) if in Split the people are more tall than in Zagreb (he was from Split but was studing at the university of Zagreb), and he answer me that "the people are the same", may be is about that we´re talking about, that in the university and among the young enviroment the average height is different. What is your opinion abuot that. Thanks for all Herve says on 15/Jan/09
Mr. Franjo Lukovic, governor of Zagreb's Bank, is at least 205 cm tall (just watch photos about him on Google)... Herve says on 15/Jan/09
Sorry, bb, but I am not allowed to leave my e-mail on this forum. gfab says on 14/Jan/09
Hi Herve, Arcuato, and everyone else. Arcuato, I was often in Split recently, at least three time in non-touristic periods (twice in November). Walking around there, in certain moments I could not meet anyone shorter than me before crossing about 15 very tall guys. That happened with good frequency. In Amsterdam I was impressed by male height, but never experienced that: taking by chance 15 dutch guys, you find at least a couple of them shorter than 183cm, but in Dalmatia that's not so sure (of course: according to what I see). Anyway, trust Herve, and ask him with new questions: he is a mine of informations and share them willingly! Finally, thank your for your further comment on Groningen/Amsterdam, your report is good! Herve says on 14/Jan/09
Arcuato, if you want to have an exact impression how tall are people in Split, just go, as I did myself, in some supermarket, because usually stranger tourists don't go there. Then, you'll tell us your own impressions. But, believe me or not, the Dalmatians are taller than Amsterdamers, I have enough statistics to prove it, as I already did it on this forum before (just look above, please). Arcuato says on 13/Jan/09
gfab another question... in what time did you go to split (winter,summer...) and in Amsterdam too? Because it's appear that for Split the tourist (mostly of people there was tourists) decrease the average height that one guy can feel in the summer, and in Groningen happen anything similar because the ducht students go out from the city.But for me is very hard to belive that the real people in Split are taller than Amsterdam when I was there, but will try to trust in you because as I said, there was 80% of tourist there. Thanks for everything ;) Arcuato says on 13/Jan/09
Happy new year for everybody ;). gfab, about your question I can answer that the guy who refer that 190cm. is the average height in groningen probably is a younger and he refer among the younger (is like if I go to the "cafe kroon" in the center of amsterdam, in where there is only young RICH dutch people, and there I can fell (187cm myself) exactly in the average height or "little" shorter while among the normal people of amsterdam I'm tall (including youngers)). I was in the summer on holidays in groningen (groningen is a city of students and there was no students in summer), and then I can say that I still being tall (that's my final conclusion),but I cannon't give you another conclusion at the university period, that I can imagine that the height would increase about the students that move to groningen to study there.Sorry if my report don't help you too much, but I was only in the summer. Herve says on 12/Jan/09
If my messages are still put off this way, I'll not write any more to this forum ! gfab says on 9/Jan/09
Herve, they should mention you in their paper! Just for sake of completeness, I mention the following link: Click Here where you find a message on Montenegrins by SassanidShah, on 14 December 2005. The message is hardly reliable, probably the guy drank too much wine before posting. The interesting part is that maybe that comment is a correct forecast for the next future... bb says on 9/Jan/09
Herve I am fascinated by your work and would be interested in writing about it/you. Is it possible you could give your email address? Herve says on 9/Jan/09
Wish you too all of you a happy new year. Yes, bb, you were right : this study of 2005 was mine, and I gave all my data to a French anthropolog, Mr. Jean-Claude PINEAU. I collected all the heights and he just published the results. But next time, I'll do it all by myself with new statistics.
Well, as I already answered all these who clam that Dutch men are the tallest people in Europe, Arcuato just needs to see what I wrote before. Anyway, it's prooved that young men in Split (185 cm) are taller than in Amsterdam (184 cm). What is about Groningen, I don't know, but if someone can go to Drnis (Croatia), Trebinje (Bosnia and Herzegovina) or Niksic (Montenegro), he can be sure to meet people as tall as in Groningen... gfab says on 7/Jan/09
btw, and first of all: happy 2009 to everyone. Arcuato, thank you for your report. I had an opposite impression than you. I was in Amsterdam four times and four times (or more?) I was in Split, and a couple of time in Belgrade. Agree with you that in Amsterdam they're a taller than in Belgrade, but I'm rather sure that in Split guys are taller than in Amsterdam. Actually it is possible that tourists distorted your perception. You should discuss this topic with Herve. Then I have a question for you: you mentioned that you're tall in all the places. "All the places" includes Groningen? I ask this question since in this list someone said in Groningen average height is 190cm so this info seems not coherent with your statement. Bye! bb says on 7/Jan/09
Hervé, I see online that there is a 2005 French study about the heights of adolescents in the Dinaric alps; it is by Pineau JC, Delamarche P, and Bozinovic S. Is this related to your work? Arcuato says on 3/Jan/09
Hello guys. I'm 187cm (~6'2") and I can say about my self experience that in netherlands the people are the tallest that I ever saw (I live here long time), first groningen and after that amsterdam. I have been also in belgrade in the last september (no tourist there) and they are not far from dutch, but a "little" less.I travel also to Split but there was impossible to compare because there was many many tourist, but in my opinion in Split they are smaller than in Belgrade. I will go the next summer to croatia again and in this time I will travel to montenegro, but sinceraly I think that they will be equal that in Belgrade (a little bit smaller than in amsterdam). In conclusion: Groningen >= Amsterdam >= Belgrade >= Split (with tourists), and of course that I'm tall (but in the good way) in all the places. What do you think friends? That I have the true and in montenegro the people would be like Belgrade or finally in montenegro live the tallest people (for me now it's in Groningen)? Herve says on 26/Dec/08
Also I don't think there are two women 210 cm tall in Serbia whose name is Zorana... Herve says on 24/Dec/08
Zorana, I read an article about you in Kurir : Zenski Divac. That's the way I know you. My name is Hervé. Best regards. zorana says on 22/Dec/08
What is your name?How you now for me i havent team and i am not at the euro basket Herve says on 20/Dec/08
Hello ! What's about my friend Mario, I asked him to give us his own testimony of a 204 cm tall man living in Split... what he did. By the way, he recently married a girl from Split whose brother is... 208 cm tall !
Regarding your question, gfab (what's your real name ?), the statistics show that difference of height between men and women is about 14 cm. As a matter of fact, in Split, young men are 185 cm tall and young women, 171. I think that anthropometry usually joins psychology or, if you prefer, psychology joins anthropometry within the human couples. It's a fact that women prefer men taller than themselves and men, women smaller. So does it " nature " or what people call such. Here are for illustration some parental heights of a dozen of Croats tall 210 cm and more (I asked them myself). One can see the difference is also respected among tall people : 195/180, 196/176, 200/180, 190/185, 203/170, 198/177, 198/185, 193/173, 192/184, 202/178, 187/183, 196/186... Bye ! gfab says on 19/Dec/08
Herve, you know everyone tall overthere, eh eh. I have another question for you. I read a psycology research claiming that the "ideal" difference in height between a man and a woman should be 14cm, in order to have the better chances for a happy life together. I suspect this research is real rubbish: looking at the statistics, I observed that if we fix a population (whichever population) and consider males and females, then the difference in height is 13-15cm. So I think it is quite erroneous invoking psychology when the simple statistics is enough to explain which is the most frequent difference in height that occurs when an adult male meet an adult female! I wrote too much and probably the topic is not interesting, anyway I asked for having a comment from you, Herve. Bye! Herve says on 19/Dec/08
Mario is one of my Croatian friends... Mario from Split says on 19/Dec/08
« With my height 204 cm in Split area, I feel like some ordinary guy with normal height. Split area is really specific, because I meet so many people around 2 m or even taller than that. From my experience, 50% of those people I meet never played any sport in their life and they are still around 2 m tall. For example, in Le Meridien hotel in Split where I work, we have 4 guys over 2 meters including myself. If you know that we have 200 employees, those figures mach perfectly with the number 1/50 people is over 2 m. I have to tell that I only mentioned people over 2 m, but there is so many others slightly shorter (from 193 till 198cm).
I have travelled all over the Unites States and Europe. In my college team, I was always the tallest person while in Split (junior) team, I was right in the middle with my height. When you have Sundov (221 cm), Kartelo (208 cm), Zizic (207 cm), Poljak (213 cm) in the team, I was actually playing position 3-4. I had problems in college (freshman year) because of that. Coach was expecting from me to play position 5 not 3-4. Of course, took me some time to adjust and latter was all fine.
On the end, conclusion is that people are really taller in Croatia especially in Split area what is proved by all researches ». Herve says on 19/Dec/08
Yes, I'll still go on with Dalmatia and Herzegovina, the only two regions (sorry) in Europe where stats are incredible. Every year, I get more and more data and that's really " funny " for me. Moreover, I expect that in the future Dalmatians and Herzegovinians will be much taller than Dutchmen even. That's a real challenge to follow ! gfab says on 18/Dec/08
Yes, Herve, I suspected my way is too rough. it has this advantage: it is really fast (good for me: I have little amount of time). Herve, after publishing your results, will you continue with your statistics in Dalmatia, or do you plan to study some other areas? Herve says on 18/Dec/08
Hey gfab ! Nice to hear you. Your way of taking stats is not really scientific, but shows anyway that people in this area are tall. That's not surprising as most of them are from " Yugoslavian " descent, are not they (Nova Gorizia was Nova Gorica, etc.) ? If you really want to get true stats, you must do like me : contact sports' teachers and ask them to give you their pupils' heights (to get a good average, you need to take them in both classical and professionnal high schools). And if your study concerns boys 17 years old, you'll be able to add about 1,5 cm to the average you'll have found. That's a big, but sure work. Bye. gfab says on 17/Dec/08
Hi friends. A little statistics. Herve, don't laugh, it is very rough :-) I picked a friend of mine, 188cm tall. I visited the three main towns in my area, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, north-east of Italy. The towns are Trieste, Udine, Gorizia (visited in this order). Walking around in the main squares, I compared my friend with other guys around. I wrote N (no) when my friend was equal to, or taller than the other guy, or in any dubious case. Otherwise (that is: when he was clearly shorter), I wrote S (si' = yes). That way in a few hours I got a good amount of data. I wrote 198 'S', out of 1260 comparisons. That means that about 15% of guys are 191 or more in this area (I think that I classified 189-190cm guys in the dubious/equal cases). I don't know how much this statistics is good/useful. Anyway this forum is the proper place where to put it. Bye. Herve says on 8/Dec/08
This same Ivan Zaradic wrote me too regarding his village of Lovrec (only 2500 inhabitants) where lives also his friend Marijan Nikolic (209 cm, 1982) : " In my village there are many boys who are between 15-17 years old, and are 2 or more meters high ". Herve says on 6/Dec/08
Hello friends. About height people in Zagreb again, one of my good friends, Ivan Zaradic (2,11 m, 1988), who is a Dalmatian living in the main town of Croatia, wrote me this yesterday : " People in Zagreb are unusually high, especially girls. I meet everyday people who are unusally high,and it is pleasant to see that you are not the only one who is so tall.
Most of those people are Dalmatian, here in zagreb because of work or college, so Dalmatians are, I think, the tallest in Croatia. People who meet me in the street guess that I'm from Dalmatia ".
Croat 1, is it good now for the other heights in your college ? Herve says on 5/Dec/08
Croat 1, is it OK for the other heights in your school ? Herve says on 4/Dec/08
No, sorry and it's only in Croatian... gfab says on 2/Dec/08
hi friends, I had some problem posting. I hope now everything works. Herve, your articles will appear online? croat 1 says on 29/Nov/08
I agree with you,btw.,I visited Paris last year and i noticed that French youngsters aren't small Herve says on 28/Nov/08
Croat 1, no problem : I am 183 cm tall, more than the French average which must be today about 177-178 cm among youngsters. In southern Europe, we are a bit taller that Portugueses, Spaniards and Italians. In the south, people are smaller (mainly due to north-african and south-european immigration, that's what anthropologists say and what one can verify), while in the north and north-east, height notably increases (because of descendants of german Franks and Burgonds). But we are so far from Dinarics !
By the way, it's quite interesting that Dutch people seem to have almost finished growing up, when young Croatians are taller and taller. I think that in a few years, there will be a bigger difference between Dutch and Dalmatian people, for example, as this difference always existed in the past centuries (in 1865, the dutch average was only 165 cm and about 175-176 in Dalmatia and Herzegovina)... We'll see. croat 1 says on 27/Nov/08
Herve,how tall are you ,if I may ask?What do you generally think of average height in France? Herve says on 25/Nov/08
You'll also find another article about my researches regarding Croats 210 cm tall and more in " SUPER KOSARKA " of december 2008 too, but I think less interesting. croat 1 says on 24/Nov/08
yeah,we were measured without shoes on.It's great that you will publish your studies in "Hrvatska košarka".I will buy the december edition to see it Herve says on 22/Nov/08
Thanks Croat 1. I hope too that the heights in your school are taken off without shoes ? For now on, we have 27 heights for an average of 182,70 cm, which means 184 at adult age. With the other schools, I think it could be between 182 and 184. Well, I did not think it would be this high in Osijek... If all my Croatian friends are interested, the newspaper " HRVATSKA KOSARKA " will publish in december an article about my studies... See you soon ! Herve says on 22/Nov/08
Thanks Croat 1. I hope too that the heights in your school are taken off without shoes ? For now on, we have 27 heights for an average of 182,70 cm, which means 184 at adult age. With the other schools, I think it could be between 182 a croat 1 says on 21/Nov/08
Ok ,but I can get them next week.I think people are even a bit taller here than in Osijek cause when the war here ended,aproximetly 20 000 people from Bosnia moved as refugees to Sl.Brod and these people are even a bit taller than the locals in Sl.Brod. Herve says on 21/Nov/08
Thanks and please give us the complete list of third class pupils when you get it from your teacher, OK ? What do you think of height people in Slavonski Brod ? Are they as tall as in Osijek ? croat 1 says on 21/Nov/08
Herve,here is the list from around 20 other of my friends from highschool:186,182,195,184,192,177,193,188,181,185,178,191,180,183,175,168,180,177.(I asked my sport teacher to write down male heights from 2 other classes who are 3rd grade).btw,I don't live in the Osijek are bur in Sl.Brod Herve says on 21/Nov/08
That's not enough ! To get an average, we'd need about 40 or 50 heights, not only 9. Maybe you could ask your sports' teacher that he gave you pupils' heights in other third classes of your high school... We can't conclude with only 9 men that height average in Osijek is 183,5 cm (182 cm at age 17, so 183,5 at adult age) ! Impossible ! We have to know too that many Slavonians are from dinaric descent, mainly in Osijek area. Let's take an example.
In this town, I have detected 4 men 210 cm tall or more : Ivan KROLO (2,16 m, 1983), Dino DOGAN (2,15 m, 1987), Danko BARISIC (2,12 m, 1985) and Davor PEJCINOVIC (2,11 m, 1971). Well, KROLO is from Dalmatian descent (his father is 202 cm tall), DOGAN, from Herzegovinian one (father 202 cm too), and I also believe that BARISIC comes from one of these regions. And the parents of another man 209 cm tall, Denis SUSAC (1970), are both from Herzegovina.
Maybe there will be " only " 3 or 4 cm of difference between Split's and Osijek's men (3-4 cm seems to me anyway a big difference), but without the Dinaric apport within the population of Osijek, it would be more. croat 1 says on 19/Nov/08
SO this is the list of male heights in my class-9 males:176cm,178cm x 2,179cm, 181(me),183cm,184cm,186cm,192cm.And I'm going to gimnazija.Personally,I don't think there's more than 3-4 cm difference than in dalmatia. Herve says on 18/Nov/08
OK Croat 1, I'm willing to believe you. I know that there are also tall people in Slavonia. But on the other side, all my friends from Slavonia, coaches, players and teachers are unanim to recognize that people are not as tall in Slavonia as in Dalmatia or Herzegovina. Are you in order to give us all the heights of boys in your class (I think it's third one = treci razred), from the smallest to the tallest ? And also precise if you are in high school (gimnazija) or professional school (strukovna skola), as pupils in the first one are usually taller ? The fact is that I also know 64 men from Dalmatia who are at least 210 cm tall and " only " 14 " from Slavonia, when Dalmatia has 845 000 inhabitants and Slavonia, 875 000.
I also don't think that Dutch people are 186 cm tall, even if they are really tall in the area of Groningen. But Groningen is not all Netherlands, as Dalmatia is not all Croatia... anonnymous says on 18/Nov/08
croat 1, I agree with you regarding the Dutch. I posted while ago on general height section that I saw a group of over 50 Dutch tourists, which is pretty good sample size, and their average height for men was around 180cm, and 166-167cm for women. Also, if you check the average height of national football teams, that's pretty good sample size, the Dutch don't measure up with Croatian, Serbian, and Bosnian national teams. On the other side, I do consider that people in Dalmatia, Herzegovina, and large parts of Montenegro are taller than rest of ex-Yugoslavians, but not by a lot. Probably around 2cm on average. croat 1 says on 17/Nov/08
Listen people,I'm from Croatia(17 years old),precisely Slavonia(north region) and I'm 5˝11 and weigh 180(handball player lol).In my highschool there are 15-20% of male pupils who are 6˝3 or above,but the average is 5˝11-6˝0.Girls are average 5˝6-5˝7 so I don't think we are too much smaller than other croats in dalmatia and herzegovina.I go to the seaside in dalmatia every year and I don't feel small among the locals(even among the young people).Btw ,personally I don't think dutch are average 6˝1 cause I have a few friends from netherlands and in a few occasions they commented that our people seem tall to them. Herve says on 14/Nov/08
In my message of 3/Nov/08 about giants from Siroki Brijeg (Croatian Herzegovina), I forgot to mention still Josip Sakota (210 cm, 1987). Herve says on 10/Nov/08
hey gfab, another information regarding your last question. Did you hear about Croatian super strong man Tomislav Lorber ? He's 205 cm, 135 kg, and challenges to beat some records from the Guinness Book. You can easily find some articles and youtubes showing his incredible strength on the net. Bye ! Herve says on 10/Nov/08
Are you Zorana Todorovic from Vrsac ? Well, I also know 130 Serbs 210 cm tall and more (and 1 woman, this Zorana). zorana says on 9/Nov/08
Hello!Iam tall 210cm.Iam from Serbia Herve says on 7/Nov/08
Hello ! I don't have anything about Dinarics' weight. But everybody recognizes that they are quite strong too and with excellent physical abilities. I read once that they were nicknamed, because of that, the " european Blacks ". For example, Ivan Radocaj, a Croatian wrestler who emigrated in Canada, was a huge man : 208 cm and 125 kg. But it seems that the strongest Croats live in Lika (between Dalmatia and Kvarner) : they are not too tall (180 cm on average), but very, very strong. That's what they say in Croatia. Bye ! gfab says on 5/Nov/08
Hi Herve. And thanks, of course! What about the rate height/weight for Dalmatians or Dinarics? Have you some statistics? I was impressed by their huge bodies: they're not only tall, they are thick bone men. Dutch are almost as tall as them, but they do not give the same impression of great strength, as Dalmatians do. Herve says on 4/Nov/08
By the way, in the last football European championship, the tallest team was not Greece, but... Croatia ! And in the future, be ready to see more and more Croats at 2 m, as for example, the young goalkeeper from cadet team of Zagreb's Mladost, Ante Knezovic, 15 years old and 2 m tall... Herve says on 4/Nov/08
Hi gfab. Thanks for having corrected the site of KK Siroki (you find the players' heights on the other site : Click Here then go on Bosnia). In Dubrovnik, the real height that I collected 4 years ago among 300 young men from the city is 184 cm tall, which means 1 cm less than in Split. In Albania and Kosovo, I have nothing, but sure they are not as tall as Dalmatians and Herzegovinians. Regarding Greeks, I asked 6-8 years ago to the Greek Ambassy in Paris last data about the height's average in Greece (for young men). They told me 176 cm. So, as you thought well, the Greek football team is not very representative of the national population. And the Greeks themselves are quite admirative, as they have the same religion, when they are asked if the Serbs are tall... Bye ! gfab says on 3/Nov/08
Herve, let me correct your link below: you put a comma that makes the link wrong. This should work (I mean, the link of the Siroki Brijeg basket team): friends, paste this link: Click Here gfab says on 3/Nov/08
Hi Herve. I think your statistics beats each opponent of yours :-) Do you have some infos on the southern area, I mean the Dubrovnik area in Croatia, and then Albania, Kosovo and Greece? I remember the Greece football team as one of the tallest, maybe the tallest, in last european competition, with a lot of player taller than 190cm, but probably it was a choice of the coach, Rehhagel, to have very tall players, more than Greeks characteristic. Don't worry, of course, if you cannot be so precise as in the Dalmatian/Dinaric case. Just drop your impression on those people. Bye! Herve says on 3/Nov/08
Again, if you click on the official site of basket-ball club Siroki from Siroki Brijeg (Croatian Herzegovina) : Click Here then go on " igraci ", click on n° 10 (Domagoj Bubalo, 211 cm, 1991), n° 6 (Darko Planinic, 210 cm, 1990) and n° 18 (Mario Novak, 215 cm, 1989). You have 3 players 210 cm tall and more. But that's not all. In the little place of 30 000 inhabitants with its area, could also play in this club (but left it) : Stanko Barac (216 cm, 1986), Jozo Brkic (211 cm, 1986) and Filip Kraljevic (211 cm, 1989). Is it enough to convince those who would not believe that live there the tallest European people ? Herve says on 30/Oct/08
American Marine about Split : « I once visited Split, Yugoslavia (it was still Yugoslavia back then), and I was astounded by all the tall people there. There were two obvious ethnic groups. One looked like typical souther Italians: short and olive-skinned with dark, course hair. The other group had light hair and features. Average height for men was about six-four to six-five, with men six-eight and above common. Most women were six feet or a little better. I was in the Navy then. Most places we went you could spot the Americans because they were a head taller than the locals (whether the Americans were black or white). Here the Americans were conspicuous because they were so much shorter than the locals, or at least the fair-haired, tall tribe. I figured this group explained why Yugoslavia was always at least a bronze medalist team in Olympic basketball for many years » (Edberg, 1980 ?).
Other one about Zagreb : « Just wanna look around and see how life is lived. Check out the people and see what I can see... And one thing I see for sure is they got some really tall people around here » (George Stories, 2005) !
Others about Belgrade (Serbia) : « One thing that surprised me about Serbians was how tall they were ; all the men seamed to be at least six feet. I have never seen so many tall people per capita in my life » (Trevor Lake, 2007). « On the way home, I begin noticing the young people. They are huge. The men, the women and the children. I’m 6-foot-2, and many of the young women I saw that night were looking me square in the eye. Most of the young men were much taller. You wonder why Eastern European countries keep producing these 7-foot phenoms when all we can produce is Eddy Curry and Chris Marcus ? The proof is in the genetics » (Chard Ford, ESPN, 2002). Herve says on 30/Oct/08
Hello gfab. Your question is quite opportune and I already asked myself where was this average for Croats of 180 cm taken off. The problem is that I don't know at all the average of Slavonians (180 cm seems to be much), maybe 178 or 179 cm. No real idea about that. But Slavonia is a well-populated region and you must not forget that Dalmatia has only 850 000 inhabitants. Sure the national average should suffer of that, even if Kvarner andn Istria have 18ŕ cm, and Zagreb (I think) some more (181-182 cm ? ), as you can find many tourists in the main town of Croatia being surprised by Zagrebians' height. From my own, this average of 180 cm for all Croatia looks like good, but I tell you again, I have authority only for Dalmatia. So, let's say that Croats are among the tallest people of Europe (as Germans are also 180 cm tall) and Dalmatians and Herzegovinians (let's not forget them, even if they live in Bosnia) are the tallest. For Montenegro, be sure the average is not more than in Split. Except Niksic and its area where they are very tall (about 186 cm), like Drnis (Dalmatia) or Trebinje (Serbian Herzegovina), and also Podgorica (about 185 cm), in the other places of Montenegro, the average is 183-184 cm. Not more. By the way, since many years, I try to know how many living Croats are 210 cm tall and more (with Herzegovina). Today, I have 99 men this tall !!! And my lists remain still incomplete... The tallest I know is basket-ball player (from Split) Bruno Sundov : 221 cm. Bye ! gfab says on 28/Oct/08
thx Herve! I have the following question: on the web there are several statistics on Croats average height, and all of them give 180cm as average height. Now, this seems to me an underestimation: I visited Croatia many times, and, although in the north they are shorter, still north-Croats average height should be around 180cm (and you confirmed this figure), so if we add Dalmatians, the overall average height should be around 182cm (I guess). On the other hand statistics are often precise: what you find on the web about italian average height is accurate. So I do not understand where there is the mistake. Maybe I have a wrong perception on the average height in north Croatia, but I am not so convinced: Croats are clearly taller than Czechs, and Czechs average height is reported to be 180cm. So there is something to fix, about these statistics. What is your opinion? Bye! Herve says on 25/Oct/08
Yes, the Illyrian descent of Dinaric people can be a good reason why there are tall. But not the only one, I think. Herve says on 25/Oct/08
Among women, the tallest basket-ball player (after Polish Didek) is young Serbian Zorana Todorovic (2,10 m, 1989)... Herve says on 25/Oct/08
For stats again, the tallest soccer players I know in a national first league are Croat Vanja Ivesa (205 cm, 1977, Rijeka) and Slovenian Nikola Drkusic (205 cm, 1975). Both are goal-keepers. Regarding rowing, you have in Makarska (Dalmatia) the young Frane Antunovic (207 cm, 1991), who's still growing up, and in Pula (also Croatia, but Istria), Darjan Saric (207 cm, 1988)... Herve says on 25/Oct/08
About soccer in Dalmatia, if you connect to Click Here (football club of Sibenik), click on " moncad " (team), then " igraci " (players). Here are the heights of the Croatian players (without stranger ones, Cameron, Bosniaks, Albaneses) : 172, 175 (but 16 years old), 179 (2), 180 (2), 181, 182 (2), 183 (2), 184, 186 (2), 187, 188, 189 (2), 191 (5), 193, 201... Herve says on 25/Oct/08
" Gbaf ", if you take an average in Italy, France or Dinaric Alps within an important number of students, you'll notice in fact that even you can find short Dalmatian guys for example (under 170 cm), you'll find a bigger number of short Italians or French, not only taller number but also smaller guys. So, for getting a right average, you need more than 20 guys. After only, you'll be in order to know how many are this tall among 20 Italian, French and Dalmatian students. That's why I can affirm that on average, among 40 Dalmatians, 10 are 190 cm and more, 4 are 195 and more and 1 is 2 m and more. These are real stats. But you could find a Dalmatian class of 20 students with nobody under 180 cm and another one with some (very rare anyway) under 170 cm. We need hundred and hundred heights to get that. That's what I got. If you have any other question else, don't hesitate. gfab says on 25/Oct/08
Thank you again! Another question/remark: I looked at your statistics below. What seems to me is that the difference is made by tallest people. I explain: pick up 20 italian or french students and pick up 20 dinaric students. The shortest ones could be more or less the same in the two groups. But the dinaric group have more variation inside: for instance, the two groups can start from the shortest guys at 174cm, but then italian/french reach 186cm at the most, whilst the dinaric group could arrive to 210cm! Is this correct? anonnymous says on 24/Oct/08
Croats, Serbs, Bosniacs, and Montenegrians of regions in Dalmatia, Herzegovina, and Montenegro are mostly Illiarans by origin. Rest of ex-Yugoslavians are more Slavic by origin. It may be that Illirians were rather tall people. Ex-Yugoslavians percentage wise have more Illirian than Slavic blood even though they speak Slavic language. Illirians lived in Balkans before Slavs and Avars came. That may explain. Also, Dalmatians and Herzegovinias have darker hair and skin than rest of Ex-Yugoslavians. Population of ex-Yugoslavia is mixture of Illirian, Slavic, Avar, and other people that camo to Balkans through the past. Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian football (soccer) national teams average 185cm, and are three tallest teams. One of the best world football players Zlatan Ibrahimovic who is 193cm tall is also Bosnian but plays for Sweden. Herve says on 24/Oct/08
Dalmatia is not the only " Island of tall people " in this region. As I told you, Croats and Serbs of Herzegovina are as tall, even taller for the second ones (region of Trebinje). The well-known place of Medjugorje is the land of Herzegovinian Croats who look like their brothers from Dalmatia (same nation divided in two different countries). In fact, in the north (Slavonia) and west (Istria and Kvarner) of Croatia, people are smaller, which doesn't mean small (180 cm in Pula or Rijeka equals Germans and other Scandinavians, except Dutch, of course). But usually, when you meet tall guys (2 meters and more) in these areas, you can be sure at 90% that they are originally either from Dalmatia or Herzegovina. It's also the case in Zagreb, where the height average has significally grown up since the arrivals of tall Dalmatians and Herzegovinians. Plenty of them also went in the USA, south of America and Africa, New-Zealand and Europe (for example, the parents of one of the best " German " centers, Robert Maras, 216 cm, are from Dalmatia and Herzegovina). Same remark in Belgrade (Serbia) : young men are 184-185 cm tall (not far from Split), due to the immigration of Serbs from Herzegovina, Montenegro or Zlatibor (south west of Serbia). That's all for today. Herve says on 24/Oct/08
The Dinaric people themselves (Dalmatians, Herzegovinians and Montenegrins) can't give you any sure information about their tremendous height. Maybe it's due to the so pure water from the Dinaric Alps which contains the largest quantity of mineral salts in the world. Maybe there is another reason. But the fact is that we can find since the Middle Ages some accounts of stranger people visiting these regions in support of the impressive height of their inhabitants. In Italy, you have for example Don Alberto Fortis, in France we have Don André Thévet, and even a Turkish historian from the XVI century, Aali, wrote : " This remarkable people particularly distinguishes itself by its extraodinary beauty and its EXCEPTIONAL HEIGHT "... When Don Alberto Fortis went in Dalmatia and especially in Vrgorac, he also noticed that. What would he say today when you know that in this small village of 2200 inhabitants, 3 men are more than 210 cm tall, one of whom is the best basket-ball European center, Nikola Vujcic (2,11 m) ? And if you go to Miljevci (only 400 inhabitants), close to Drnis, there are 3 guys more than 205 cm tall ! See you later... gfab says on 23/Oct/08
thank you, Herve: you entered this list and gave us a mine of informations! What is amazing about Dalmatians is that they are surrounded by not so tall people. Slovenian, Hungarian, Greek, Albanians, Croatian of the north and so on, are of ordinary height (I checked out: (a) I am not short there (b) two meter guys, who are so common in Dalmatia, become very rare in other areas): so Dalmatia seems an "island" of tall people. Have you some explanation for this height peak in that area? Herve says on 23/Oct/08
I mistaked : " Anonymous " is Herve... Herve says on 23/Oct/08
Something I forgot as it's about guitarist from Croatian descent Krist Novoselic (200 cm) on this forum. Sure he's not the tallest one in the world. In the city of Stolac (Croatian part of Bosnia and Herzegovina) plays a taller guitarist (39 years old) than him. His name is Mladen Papac : he's 209 cm (his sister Vesna : 190) ! Best regards. Anonymous says on 23/Oct/08
Hey, gfab ! Happy I gave you some informations about tall people from Dalmatia. I am also 183 cm and when I went in Split, I felt almost ridiculous. One of my Croatian friend who's 2 meters tall even told me that (exagerating a little) he was sometimes like a draf at home... What about French people, let me tell you that. If the people in south are so small, it's because for a big part of large immigration in this region since a century of " latin " people (mostly Italian and Spaniards) or Maghrebin ones. Just look at their names : few are really French ones (like Greek-Hungarian-Jewish Sarkozy...). I agree that originally French are not tall (anyway a little much than our Italian and Spaniard friends), but in some areas (as in the north ), they are taller (178-179 cm). Soon I'll be also able to give you stats for the town of Drnis, which is regarded by Dalmatians themselves as the one where people are the tallest (I think 186-187 cm on average). By the way, former NBA player Stojko Vrankovic (217 cm) was born in Drnis (father 2 m, mother 180), and future one Ante Tomic (215 cm), like " Splicanin " Marko Krecak (218 cm) both are originally from this area... Of course, with 183 cm in Split, you are under the average (185), that means effectively that more that 50% of young men are taller than you... and I... See you soon ! Herve says on 23/Oct/08
Croatia's prime minister, Ivo Sanader, native of Split, is 195 ; Split's municipal assembly president, Zeljko Jerkov, is 208... gfab says on 22/Oct/08
Hey Herve, great! Essentially you confirm all my remarks below in this list. I did *very* little statistics in comparison with you, just visited Croatia several times. I noticed an incredible increase in height from Sibenik southwards, and in that area at 183cm I see the most of guys towering me. In the north of Croatia (Reijka, Zagreb) people are not so tall, they are more or less as in my area (north-east Italy). On the other hand, I had a similar perception (of being short) in Holland, but to smaller degree than in Split/Sibenik/Dubrovnik. I visited Split three times and I am sure that much more than 50% male population is taller than me. Anyway, Herve, thank you a lot for your infos, keep going on! Just a last remark on your citations: croatian girls are very beautiful, yes, but of the tall & thick type. North-Italian girls are shorter but definitely have a better shape. ps: pardon my chauvinism :-) Lord_Sauron says on 22/Oct/08
No, I appreciate your work, I just say that average height in Croatia is not the same as in Dalmatia. Forgive me if you understood something other, it may be because of my not very good english, keep up your work. Herve says on 21/Oct/08
Another citation for Split tall people : « So I hear that the Dutch have the tallest population in Europe. This I was surprised to hear… at first… Admittedly the Dutch have a very tall population, but it reminds me of the time I was absolutely dwarfed (and I’m by no means diminutive) in Split, Croatia. It was shortly after Goran Ivanisevic famously mooned the waiting revellers following his 2001 Wimbledon win. Maybe my visit just happened to coincide with a national or international basketball competition ? Or perhaps I was just stuck amongst several groups of Dutch tourists… who knows… » (europetrotter.org/category/croatia) ? Herve says on 19/Oct/08
Yes, but Rijeka, as you know better than me, is not in Dalmatia. There the average is about 180 cm, which is tall anyway, but not as much as in Dalmatia or Herzegovina. From my own, I make these stats since several years, have thousands of boys' and girls' heights, keep in touch with more than 100 sport teachers all around Dalmatia, Herzegovina and Montenegro, so, please, I can easily proove what I say. Best regards. Lord_Sauron says on 19/Oct/08
I am from Rijeka, and I am half-Dalmatian, I am not from Slavonia. Herve says on 19/Oct/08
Some citations of tourists visiting Dalmatia : « Nowhere in the world are there taller men nor more beautiful women » (Ronald Templeman, London Times, 1988) ; « Walking the streets of Croatia, you’re struck with a sense of panic. Shadows are cast down upon you. You must look up to make eye contact. The legs under skirts are loooooong. Croatia is a land of giants. Men. Women. Children. They’re all way tall to the point that we took to wondering if we’d all just shrunk on the car ride, rather than the people of one nation being this blatantly tall » (Jeremy Hewett, 2006) ; « We liked people watching. Young Croatians are so tall and good looking ! » (Sophia Kulich) ; « Physically the Dalmatian is a splendid type. Ethnologists note with some surprise the exceptional height of the Dalmatians, and still more that of their neighbors of Herzegovina. They are among the tallest men of Europe, and not only tall but sturdy and markedly fine in their carriage » (Emily Balch, Our Slavic Fellow Citizens, 1900). And you could still find more and more, even from the Middle Ages... Herve says on 18/Oct/08
You have to distinguish in Croatia the north region (Slavonia), where people are shorter, and the south one (Dalmatia), where they are much bigger. In Herzegovina (south part of Bosnia), live also huge Croats. Well, according to height statistics, when you are 15.5 or 16 years old, you still grow up in average 3 or 4 cm more. That means in Lord Sauron's class, the adult average will be 180 - 181 cm. But sure this is not an average from Dalmatia or Herzegovina. By the way, I never said the average in these regions was 190 cm ! It's 185 ! I just showed you that if you intend to have a real average among young pupils, you need to get in in all the schools of such or such town. Thus, in the one of Ljubuski (Herzegovina) this year, 24 young Croats (17 years old) from the " Gimnazija " are 186,79 cm tall, so 188 cm later (174:1 ; 175:2 ; 177:1 ; 178:1 ; 180:2 ; 183:3 ; 185:1 ; 186:2 ; 188:1 ; 189:1 ; 190:1 ; 192:2 ; 193:1 ; 195:3 ; 198:1 ; 211:1), while in the " Srednja Strukovna Skola ", it's " only " 181,35 cm = 183 cm later, for 34 pupils (163:1 ; 170:1 ; 171:1 ; 173:1 ; 175:2 ; 176:2 ; 177:1 ; 178:2 ; 179:2 ; 180:2 ; 181:2 ; 182:1 ; 183:3 ; 184:3 ; 186:1 ; 187:3 ; 189:2 ; 190:1 ; 191:1 ; 192:1 ; 193:1). But the average in both the schools is 183,60, 185 cm at adult age, as I said before. The girls have 171 cm... If you don't believe me, please take a ticket plane for Mostar (or Split) and verify these stats in the schools themselves... ozzy osborne says on 18/Oct/08
wow thats way taller than i thought he was i was way off Lord_Sauron says on 18/Oct/08
Hi, I live in Croatia and I am between 181 and 183 cm, and I am 16 years old. People don't consider me to be tall, but most of the pupils in my high school are my height or shorter, althrough I am pretty strong built so I sometimes look shorter, so 190 cm height average in Croatia is just absurd, there are probably few tall classes, but as the average height I would tell 183-5 max. Btw, male heights in my class (all 16 or 15.5 years old) are: 160, 161, 172, 173, 173, 176, 176, 176, 177, 179, 180, 180, 182 (me), 186, 186, 187, 187 at tallest. Average height in my class is 177,12 cm. Probably, some of us will grow-up but not over the average height of 180. anonnymous says on 17/Oct/08
Herve, you have to now that Dalmatia and Herzegovina are not countries but regions of Croatia, and Bosnia, respectively. The averages of Bosnia and Croatia as a whole countries are little lower, probably 181-182cm for youngsters. Serbia, Slovenia and Montenegro should be added too. In ex-Yugoslavia 174cm for men is definitely short, especially for younger generations. I don't think Dutch are much taller, if any than Yugoslavians. Herve says on 16/Oct/08
I told you two days ago we have to be prudent when it's about getting a height average among a population of pupils or students. In fact, the most intellectual persons are usually the tallest (in France, we have several centimeters of difference between engineers and workers, as everywhere I think). So, if you want to get someting coherent, you have to get statistics in each " high school ". Let me give you one more example. Four years ago, I could obtain these phenomenal stats from a high school of Sinj (above Split, again in Dalmatia) regarding 30 pupils. This time, the average reached 188,53 cm (!), so 190 cm definitely ! Look at that : 177:1 ; 181:1 ; 182:5 ; 184:2 ; 185:2 ; 186:1 ; 188:2 ; 190:2 ; 191:5 ; 192:2 ; 193:3 ; 195:1 ; 197:1 ; 198:1 ; 200:1... Is there another school on earth where you could get such stats ? So, please, even if in Groningen people are quite tall, one must give stats which cover the whole young population, and not such or such school... Herve says on 15/Oct/08
When I wrote in my last comment : " all more or less 186 cm tall, even more (Montenegro) ", I made a mistake adding " Montenegro ". This very day, I also got some stats in Split among 43 young men (17 years old) : the height average is 183,53, which means 185 at the end of their growth. Here are the stats : 172:2 ; 174:1 ; 175:3 ; 177:3 ; 178:4 ; 179:1 ; 180:4 ; 182:3 ; 183:2 ; 184:4 ; 185:2 ; 187:2 ; 188:2 ; 189:1 ; 190:1 ; 191:1 ; 193:2 ; 194:1 ; 195:1 ; 196:2 ; 202:1. If you want to have a little idea of the incredible stature of Croats from Split (and also from Herzegovina), you have to consider that 1 young man about 4 is 1,90 m tall, 1 about 10 is 1,95 m and 1 about 50 is 2 m ! Same thing in a town like Belgrade (Serbia). But in Drnis, Trebinje or Niksic, it's still more impressive ! I'll show you that later... Herve says on 14/Oct/08
I am French and make statistics about human height in the Dinaric Alps for 10 years. I don't have yet published my results, because I need some more years of investigation. What I can say now is that we have to be prudent when the average is to be known. For example, three years ago, I got these following data from a high school in Sibenik (Dalmatia) regarding 40 young men 17 years old (which means they must still reach about 1,5 cm). Their average was 187 cm tall, so 188,5 - 189 at the end of their growth ! Here are the individual stats : 174 cm:1 (pupil) ; 177:1 ; 178:2 ; 180:4 ; 182:3 ; 183:3 ; 185:5 ; 186:2 ; 187:1 ; 189:1 ; 190:6 ; 191:2 ; 192:2 ; 193:2 ; 194:1 ; 195:2 ; 197:1 ; 210:1 (Hrvoje Govic, now 212)... But the average of young men in Sibenik is not 188 neither 189, but 185 (like in Split). The tallest people in this whole region live in Drnis (Dalmatia), Trebinje (Herzegovina) and Niksic (Montenegro), all more or less 186 cm tall, even more (Montenegro). These are true scientific statistics. Bowser says on 7/Oct/08
I'm Croatian, and I clock in at 183cm, all of my cousins are above 185cm, and I'd say that we have some of the world's tallest men. And the average Dutch height is NOT 1.88, that's ridiculous, that's way too tall to be an average height. How come Dutch women trail behind so much then? When I went to Amsterdam I didn't feel "out of place" with my height, I wasn't particularly tall, but definitely not short... ARC says on 16/Sep/08
Man, the dutch are the tallest, its clear, my height is 2.01 or 6,7 - 6,8, but im tall in the netherlands, the average is in the north around 1.88, in the south where i live its around 1.82 so theres a difference. Shikoku says on 7/Sep/08
181 in the netherlands is really short for a fullgrown man between 18-25 I really dont get where they got those numbers from but i can assure you that if you'll come to the netherlands at 181 cm you will feel far from average gfab says on 25/Jul/08
hey friends, check this link:
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I do not understand. It seems an underestimation of Dutch height. Is it possible that a statistics that encompasses oldest generations pulls down so much the average height of the youngest? annonymous says on 20/Jul/08
Finally who REGION has the tallest population, South of Croatia or Friesland-Groningen?Have Anybody been in both regions? cool says on 16/Jun/08
6' 7'' is really tall. its like almost 7 foot! people think dave grohl is taller then him dave is only 6' croatian says on 4/Jun/08
avg_or_short says on 3/Apr/08
Hi everybody,
I am a 171 cm tall male (a little over 5'7"). I am 25 year old. Do you think it is short for a man in Crotia and Netherlands?
How would i feel if I were in Crotia or Holland?
And how would be the people's perception about me? Would it be considered normal?
Waiting for your comments for both Netherlands and Crotia...
--Well I don't think you would feel much different than in your home country,I'm 6ft.1 and I consider myself average here,but there are also many people who range from 5.7-5.10 Dubios says on 30/May/08
@shikoku Do you have proof of your statements, some links to academic papers perhaps? Dennis says on 30/May/08
Dave Grohl mentions his height as 6 foot 8 in a concert. dude says on 4/May/08
avg_or_short -you would definitely be short , in my class shortest male is 174 and we are always teasing him mex says on 25/Mar/08
somebody knows wheres krist now??
i never tought that dave was a dick, anyway... i never liked too much
a few weeks ago i've read that he said that "he was so important like kurt" gfab says on 22/Mar/08
shikoku, the comparison is not between Holland and Croatia, it concerns a certain large Balkan area (south Croatia, Montenegro and a part of Bosnia-Herzegovina). I understood from other in this list that in that area live the tallest people in Europe. I was skeptical, but as far as I could verified, I confirm that in southern Croatia male people average about 190cm. If you don't trust what you find in this list, please go to Split, or Sibenik, or Trogir (wonderful little town) and you'll get convinced. shikoku says on 17/Mar/08
Well, 6'2 is not more then low average in frysland-groningen the nrothern of the netherlands the aevrage 18 year old is there between 188-190, i myself am 15 and 186 cm tall here in the north i feel short next to 18 year olds but if i travel down all the way south to limburg i feel actually tall where the averaga would be 183-184 in amsterdam it would be around 185, i dont beleive all the serbia and montenegro extreme tallness claims, people tend to overestimate those guys a lot. beleive me i have been on holiday around the coast in croatia and the younger guys around their dont quite measure up w ith theyoung dutch guys. i see a lot of claims of 'yes we are taller than the dutch' but they all seem to lack evidence... gfab says on 11/Mar/08
Hi friends. Another short report. I was in the south of France last week-end. They are really short, over there (but my statistics is not so faithful: just one day and a half). Anyway, the difference with my last trip (south Croatia) seems impressive: is it possible that the difference between the two mentioned areas is 15cm, probably more: about 188-190cm are average south-Croats; about 171-173cm seem to be the south French people. Some French friend around, to confirm or rectify my statement? How is the height distribution in France, according to the various areas? All the best. Montenegro says on 9/Mar/08
Average height of Montenegrins is 6'2 (188cm) and we are the tallest nation on Earth :) mm says on 3/Mar/08
I can say, that croatians are really tall. I'm 185cm which is better than average in my country (czech republic), but in some parts of croatia I felt almost dwarfish.. there are realy lot of people over 190cm. Austrian says on 18/Feb/08
@moke: ahahahaha, youre a funny ****er
@michael: Charisteas is 191 cm, no more
@orjan betil: another useless comment :) Moke says on 17/Feb/08
In Switzerland the average height of young people is about 192cm. I`m 207cm. Michael says on 13/Feb/08
I'm Greek. I'm around 183 - 185cm an i don't consider myself tall at all. I wouldn't say the Greeks are a tall nation but i was extremely surprised to see how tall some of the players were in the National Greek soccer an BasketBall team. Charisteas apparently is 198cm tall, but then again he grew up in Germany most of his life so maybe the diet or region plays are role in height.
I know quite a few Yougoslav's an it's amazing how there entire race isn't uniformally tall. When i see people from Skopje they are I'd say pretty short, they hit 170's - 180's i reckon but as you raise the scale an go further North an look at the Northern region of Bosnia an certain sections of Serbia an Croatia, It's just scary an really amazing seeing such tall heights. Most i know are easily in the 190' an 2 meters +.
I think the region an diet of certain ethnic backgrounds play a major role on how tall they become as a nation. This has been evidenced by the Japanese an Indians. Once a very short race but now in our days i see some of them hitting 185 - 190.
What do you reckon? örjan bertill says on 4/Feb/08
in sweden is it normal with beeing 2 meters tall lot of people is 2 meters here :P Metalmaniac says on 21/Jan/08
Novoselic told me he is 6-7 and 185 pounds. 6footkate says on 23/Dec/07
i actually thought he would be bigger but maybe im just used to guys that big considering i have and dad that big and an uncle close to it Austrian says on 3/Dec/07
many croatians around here eh? lol croatian dude says on 29/Nov/07
i am from north of croatia and there, people are shorter than on the south,i am 1.88 (6.2) my best friends are like-1.80,1.85,1.90,1.91 and 1.95
when i am in zadar ,split or šibenik i fell short there ,even old malas are 1.80-1.90 peli says on 24/Nov/07
krist is taller than charles barkley, thats for sure |
